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Post by Infinite on Jan 22, 2008 23:32:52 GMT
Have no fear...Infinite is here.
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Post by Ryan on Jan 23, 2008 18:15:09 GMT
Have no fear...Infinite is here. Noob.
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Post by mrsmiley on Jan 24, 2008 15:41:51 GMT
Have no fear...Infinite is here. Infinite should be in the coding boards, not here.
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Post by Admin on Jan 24, 2008 17:31:31 GMT
Is Infinite going to stay this time?
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Post by Infinite on Jan 24, 2008 20:44:30 GMT
Is Infinite going to stay this time? Infinite doesn't really have a reason to stay...lol.
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Post by Eric on Jan 29, 2008 0:44:51 GMT
Oh man, I remember back in the day when the coding boards were active and I wrote a proposal in which a lot of the structure of the coding boards would change in a way that would go along with trends. My whole premise was that the necessity for proboards codes themselves way dying. Nobody else wanted to go along with it though.
One of the first things I declared (or as I recall, but it's a little fuzzy as that was a long time ago), was that the coding database should be done off with. Reasoning: Codes can be found for proboards tons of places now (and already could be at the time). It's not anything that is individual or unique about SSD. SSD at the time was trying to target new people, and bring in fresh faces and get things rolling into the larger wave of things, rather than just staying in the proboards area--in every way except for in coding at least.
At this point with PBS, any code that has been made can pretty much be found there. You can say that this is irrelevant, but it is completely relevant. Content that is not unique and is not creating activity is useless. A bunch of excess data stored on some computer miles away from most of us.
The other thing that needs to go is code support, which has so little to do with actually coding when compared to getting help having this code work on a proboard. This is entirely useless to growth. You get leeches, people that come here for help and contribute nothing. Sure, get rid of it and you might get "angry" people, but who cares? They can go elsewhere and leach. If they want to help the community, then their say might mean something.
The whole error that SSD has continued to follow, is that the coding boards are targeting the wrong audience. The people who need codes are who are being targeted, not the people doing the coding.
Boards that assist coders in programming are what need to be added. Tutorials and things that will promote further growth is what is needed for the coding area to live, instead of just dropping it off and handing it off to a mod to keep on life support--which is exactly what has been done. It does not need to be killed, but simply reimplemented and retargeted to an audience that actually will participate.
Get more boards for things like tutorials, create a coding help board for helping programmers, break that down in to sub-boards based upon different types of programming (web, compiled, system, etc.), more discussion of programming itself, and more activities for coders to get involved in.
The two cents from a guy who has admittedly dropped dead in the proboards arena.
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Post by nrich on Jan 29, 2008 2:33:15 GMT
Oh man, I remember back in the day when the coding boards were active and I wrote a proposal in which a lot of the structure of the coding boards would change in a way that would go along with trends. My whole premise was that the necessity for proboards codes themselves way dying. Nobody else wanted to go along with it though. One of the first things I declared (or as I recall, but it's a little fuzzy as that was a long time ago), was that the coding database should be done off with. Reasoning: Codes can be found for proboards tons of places now (and already could be at the time). It's not anything that is individual or unique about SSD. SSD at the time was trying to target new people, and bring in fresh faces and get things rolling into the larger wave of things, rather than just staying in the proboards area--in every way except for in coding at least. At this point with PBS, any code that has been made can pretty much be found there. You can say that this is irrelevant, but it is completely relevant. Content that is not unique and is not creating activity is useless. A bunch of excess data stored on some computer miles away from most of us. The other thing that needs to go is code support, which has so little to do with actually coding when compared to getting help having this code work on a proboard. This is entirely useless to growth. You get leeches, people that come here for help and contribute nothing. Sure, get rid of it and you might get "angry" people, but who cares? They can go elsewhere and leach. If they want to help the community, then their say might mean something. The whole error that SSD has continued to follow, is that the coding boards are targeting the wrong audience. The people who need codes are who are being targeted, not the people doing the coding. Boards that assist coders in programming are what need to be added. Tutorials and things that will promote further growth is what is needed for the coding area to live, instead of just dropping it off and handing it off to a mod to keep on life support--which is exactly what has been done. It does not need to be killed, but simply reimplemented and retargeted to an audience that actually will participate. Get more boards for things like tutorials, create a coding help board for helping programmers, break that down in to sub-boards based upon different types of programming (web, compiled, system, etc.), more discussion of programming itself, and more activities for coders to get involved in. The two cents from a guy who has admittedly dropped dead in the proboards arena. I love you.
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Post by eternity on Jan 29, 2008 15:16:24 GMT
we have boards that allow coders to talk and help each other, from what I've seen you guys don't like that either. If you have suggestions for what will attract coders here to talk, discuss and help each other then by all means suggest away (we've got tutorials and open source stuff covered)
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Post by Vintage on Jan 29, 2008 15:22:17 GMT
I think we've stated that numerous times, by having a all-around-tech board instead o just a code-specific board you attract numerous visitors to that area, not just coders...
the coding area is dead ...
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Post by eternity on Jan 29, 2008 16:23:59 GMT
Just thought, how about putting the codes on the website? We did that with the resources ages ago and it seems to be gong okay. They're out of the way for those who insist they be moved, but we still have them for those who want them.
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Post by Eric on Jan 29, 2008 20:52:24 GMT
Eternity, based upon what you've just said and how the boards are set up its clear that coders have absolutely no influence over the direction of this forum any more. It really has just dropped off the coding area to be an art/design forum instead of holding onto coding.
Let me break this down and address everything you've said.
Taking the perspective of the average programmer, are you likely to go to a forum that has mostly artistic based boards with one (yes, one and only one) board in which coding can be discussed, or the one with many different boards covered for various areas that can be talked about in terms of coding? As of now, there are only two boards in which any programmers might have serious interest: one is a board, and the other is a sub-board (which is inside of a board that would never be visited by the average programmer). Coders galore and open-source are the only two that might draw any attention, but certainly are not enough by themselves.
The code database and the code support/request boards are doing nothing, absolutely nothing for SSD. In fact they are probably hurting it by showing the lack of activity especially when compared to PBS, which despite your protests does count (competition matters).
Hopefully from this you can see that one board will do nothing to draw the attention of programmers (open-source really doesn't encourage participation, as much as it is just helpful).
Not even close. Your focus is on the codes that are already there, and helping people with problems for them. Tutorials are seriously lacking, and should probably be returned to the forum, which is where they were originally. Overall the range of topics covered in tutorials is very poor, as well as the depth of them in common topics. Open source hasn't been touched in ages, mainly due to the fact that you have no programmers!
Any coding staff should be redirected to doing 3 things: 1) helping coders with problems (will happen as activity develops), 2) creating more discussion about programming (there are countless things that can be talked about), and 3) writing tutorials about any programming topic that they have knowledge of (and no this should not go in the herald, nobody wants to have to sift through random articles when looking for information on the latest techniques in javascript).
SSD is mostly focused on only Javascript right now, other languages are rarely brought up.
Here are the steps that should be taken: 1) Remove the code database, the code support/requests, and the code submission boards. 2) Make open-source a board of and by itself 3) Make boards for web languages, compiled languages, interpreted languages, and anything else that can be supported (between your current mods' level of knowledge, I'm sure they could create plenty enough topics to make these boards interesting enough to view) 4) Make a board for program/application design (no, not the graphical design, but the way that objects and parts of a program go together). Right now this is a big topic, and I've seen two forums cover it, and neither do it well 5) Have the coding staff do as I've described above 6) Create participatory activities such as projects that people can join in on. Even if it's just simple challenges that are descriptions of something that a program can do, and seeing how few statements it can be done in. It doesn't have to be anything complex, just a simple program, like something that prints the numbers 1-10 for example. Even the most basic things can be fun, if the coding staff put their minds too it they can come up with tons, I'm sure, so let them.
And the most important thing, is to make these boards in the coding category itself. Do not pass these off in to sub-boards, because otherwise, god forbid, somebody might see them. If you feel it takes up too much space as a user, guess what? SSD has this great feature that allows you to hide categories. Make use of it!
Yes, I'm sure you have, and I'm also sure the idea has been duly noted. However, most technology topics can be and already are discussed in the chillout section. Adding this will not generate activity, simply move it.
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Post by eternity on Jan 29, 2008 23:42:07 GMT
first of all I apologise for the awful typing, I was in a rush Eternity, based upon what you've just said and how the boards are set up its clear that coders have absolutely no influence over the direction of this forum any more. It really has just dropped off the coding area to be an art/design forum instead of holding onto coding. [/code] They do hae influence if they choose to show it, but as you have said, there are none and so, said influence cannot exist anyway. We're not going out of our way to ignore suggestions, they simple aren't made. Let me break this down and address everything you've said. Taking the perspective of the average programmer, are you likely to go to a forum that has mostly artistic based boards with one (yes, one and only one) board in which coding can be discussed, or the one with many different boards covered for various areas that can be talked about in terms of coding? I have no idea, I am not a programmer. I can only deduce that the answer is no, otherwise you wouldn't have brought it up Referring to your comment about moving activity which you mention later, won't several areas simple spread the activity out? Wouldn't a single board for discussion of those topics work better? Unless you mean for different areas of programming rather than smaller areas (again, I'm not a programmer so am only guessing that there are limited topics to talk about - methods, standards, the languages themselves. You're better off listing these and their importance so we have some idea of what is needed. Now that alien is back we do have more opinions on the subject [not saying Dalton's opinions are void, more like more than one opinion gives more ideas]) The code database and the code support/request boards are doing nothing, absolutely nothing for SSD. In fact they are probably hurting it by showing the lack of activity especially when compared to PBS, which despite your protests does count (competition matters). Yet if they vanish completely you are going to get more and more support requests in the new boards that we do make. For the sake of fairness at least, it is good to keep an area where support can be gained like we have critique and the design boards for the graphics side of things. Your focus is on the codes that are already there, and helping people with problems for them. Not focused no, it's not the only thing we should include for the coding area, but it is a part of it. Tutorials are seriously lacking, and should probably be returned to the forum, which is where they were originally. Overall the range of topics covered in tutorials is very poor, as well as the depth of them in common topics. Open source hasn't been touched in ages, mainly due to the fact that you have no programmers! [/url] Tutorials are member submitted, and members are free to do so but rarely do. Non-programmers cannoy possibly make a wde range of tutorials and (as with the resources) we have always relied on member contribution. There is little that can be done about that. Returning them to the forum does nothing for consitency. Why should one set of resources be on the website while the others are on the forum? (mainly why I suggested we move the codes to the website) Any coding staff should be redirected to doing 3 things: 1) helping coders with problems (will happen as activity develops), 2) creating more discussion about programming (there are countless things that can be talked about), and 3) writing tutorials about any programming topic that they have knowledge of (and no this should not go in the herald, nobody wants to have to sift through random articles when looking for information on the latest techniques in javascript). I'm sure Dalton and Aleon would be happy to take those into consideration. SSD is mostly focused on only Javascript right now, other languages are rarely brought up. [/url] I got the impression there weren't as many members interested in those subjects, if this is because they don;t feel they can talk about them then their discussion should be more actively encouraged, but you can;t talk about things people aren't interested in Here are the steps that should be taken: 1) Remove the code database, the code support/requests, and the code submission boards. [/code] I've already said I';m reluctant to do that, but UC and Ollie may have other ideas 2) Make open-source a board of and by itself I'm in favour of that 3) Make boards for web languages, compiled languages, interpreted languages, and anything else that can be supported (between your current mods' level of knowledge, I'm sure they could create plenty enough topics to make these boards interesting enough to view) Forgive my ignorance, is there a major difference between these? Could any be merged? 4) Make a board for program/application design (no, not the graphical design, but the way that objects and parts of a program go together). Right now this is a big topic, and I've seen two forums cover it, and neither do it well Again, Miss Stupid, what does this mean? 6) Create participatory activities such as projects that people can join in on. Even if it's just simple challenges that are descriptions of something that a program can do, and seeing how few statements it can be done in. It doesn't have to be anything complex, just a simple program, like something that prints the numbers 1-10 for example. Even the most basic things can be fun, if the coding staff put their minds too it they can come up with tons, I'm sure, so let them. We can only do that once activty builds up but, of course, activitys will be started/ And the most important thing, is to make these boards in the coding category itself. Do not pass these off in to sub-boards, because otherwise, god forbid, somebody might see them. If you feel it takes up too much space as a user, guess what? SSD has this great feature that allows you to hide categories. Make use of it! I've never liked sub-boards unless they're something that should be hidden. If the topics you suggest are major enough (I'm sorry that I have no clue about the ones you've suggested) then of course they won't be relegated.
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Post by Wrighty on Jan 30, 2008 0:03:24 GMT
Everything Eric has stated is indeed valid, however one minor thing.
I say don't remove the code support board, make it more broad, don't just focus it on PB coding, make it for all aspects, PHP, assembly etc... This way it's leaving a needed board there, while still expanding what it's for.
I agree the code index simply isn't needed. E - Are you prepared to sit and put EVERY single code onto the site? I sincerely doubt it, not because you're lazy, but because there's a lot there...
I have never been a keen one for keeping things on a site, they draw away from the original Forum.
I simply suggest you rip away the excess parts, and go back to basics. Like Eric said, if it means annoying some people, so be it... But I know that I only come here for chillout, simply because the coding boards here suck, and I'd much rather discuss coding related stuff on a place like SZ which has about 4 or 5 coding boards, reigning them supreme over SSD.
Finally I'll leave by saying, whatever you do, make sure it's well staffed, a staff member that comes on every day, that isn't taking breaks every 2 weeks... If you have someone that isn't here, then the place will Die. A board is only as active as it's staff.... Inactive staff not promoting discussion etc... in the board will kill it.
Oh well
Oh & @the reason to keep support: Some designers come here for design, they may be making a forum, and therefore require help with codes, why would they want to leave a forum to just have to register at another to request a code?
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Post by Eric on Jan 30, 2008 1:00:51 GMT
For accuracy's sake: that's correct.
While you could break down the boards in a manner like the one you've described, it is probably far more organized and beneficial to use a structure like the one I've described, in which you create a board for the different categories of programming languages.
Yes, the activity is technically being spread out from coder's galore, but by creating more boards more activity should ensue (with proper management from whomsoever is appointed to the task). As I've said about the programmers searching for a place to talk, simply having more boards will draw more programmers out. By simply having one board SSD looks like it has no idea what it is doing with programming, and thus no expertise, and thus no members. With multiple boards, it seems like it has an understanding of the range of topics and the ability to help with a larger range of topics.
Realistically, keeping them is leaving something that requires maintenance, which means that the coding staff will have less time to create programmer-attractive content, and will instead be busy helping people who are just here to get help with a topic they have no idea about.
Also, that analogy is not accurate. The design and critique boards help graphics designers, but the current code support boards help code users, not programmers. It's here that I'd like to also address Wrighty's concern, which is that some form of support needs to be maintained. From your post, Wrighty, it seems like you believe code support should be the way I do--that is, programmers receiving help making their own things. In the structure that I am proposing, programmers would be able to post their problems in any board related to the programming language that they are having problems with. So say you have a PHP problem, you would post it in the web-development discussion board.
As far as the last part of your post Wrighty, about graphics designers making a forum, in order for growth I think that its necessary to move past simply helping forums get started up, and into helping people learn the skills themselves. Yes, they may have to register somewhere else, but they don't have to leave here. SSD can't be an all-around board for everything, and multi-forum joining already occurs frequently. Plus, you really just can't compete with PBS, which will be the first place most people will go.
By keeping focus on proboards codes and support for them you are holding back the programming section from development. Due to the staff problem, and due to the fact that it is such a specific topic that is toward the beginner end in the range of programming. It has a negative appeal to programmers.
As to the part about tutorials being member submitted, that's why I suggested having staff write some and moving the tutorials back to forums. The problem with having the tutorials on the website is that it creates a hassle to go and find tutorials. New tutorials aren't automatically put at the top like they are on the forum. In fact, even just to get to a certain topic in tutorials is a hassle. There are far too many categories for them. If the website were better integrated and suited to the forum, then leaving them there would be no problem.
Even if you don't move the current ones to the forum, I'd recommend allowing new ones to be posted on the forum. And do not remove commenting ability from them, that's the whole advantage to keeping it on the forum, it makes discussion easier.
There might not be as many current members interested in these topics, but as far as future members go, there are plenty. I'm sure it's not because they feel they can't talk about them, it's because they feel that the discussion will be underplayed due to the current nature of posts in there. Using Dalton as an example, posting a physics engine in the coder's galore board would probably get almost no responses. Simply separating the boards will encourage more discussion of this nature.
This is my break-down of the major categories of programming languages, and there are huge differences between them. The discussion of each topic should really have its own board encourage discussion. Also, part of the point in having all these is, once again, the appeal to people browsing the forum.
Let me go a bit more in depth about number 4, application design for everyone. In programming there exists what are called design patterns. Design patterns are solutions to commonly found problems. However, the problems are not specific, but rather have to do with how a program/application is set up. These patterns can be applied all the time. Other topics included in application design would be things like the usage of frameworks, which is a pre-coded system that makes program development faster. These topics have to do much more with the theory of programming as opposed to the actual nitty-gritty of it. In some regards, using these topics properly is considered the only true form of programming, and the rest is simply implementation. If this board were added I would be more than willing to get the discussion started, but I cannot guarantee that I could stay around forever to maintain it. Though should the proper draw to programmers be generated, hopefully it wouldn't be necessary to have me stick around
The activities like what I have described do not require current activity, they merely encourage. It's not like a competition which has a clear winner, it would just be a topic with the challenge described and people posting their solutions to it. Then discussion could spark about the different forms of solution and so no. Topics like these would be best in the Coder's Galore board which should be left for general topics that do not fit into any other board.
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Post by eternity on Jan 30, 2008 13:12:48 GMT
Thanks for your input guys, especially Eric, tis greatly appreciated I'll see what the other admins think as I'm all up for doing something to that area.
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Post by Wrighty on Jan 30, 2008 16:33:36 GMT
Yey Something might be done at last!
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Post by eternity on Jan 30, 2008 17:48:03 GMT
Just so you know, the tutorials on the website have been moved out of their categories and are simply under the name of the language they refer to.
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Post by Vintage on Feb 3, 2008 0:58:48 GMT
Now we just have two programming areas and still no all tech area ... Its still purely coding and thats not real helpful if I need to know how to fix my cd drive or install program A or B.... IMO of course
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Post by eternity on Feb 3, 2008 1:52:28 GMT
then post in chillout
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