the critique board

[ishmael]

I need some help understanding.

I was looking at tags and designs in the critique board, and I was reading the comments.

All replies I read are basically just people blowing sunshine up other peoples asses.

Is it just me, or is everything posted on this forum the next best graphic design that they have ever seen.

Is it a critique board, or a "fill-the-designer-with-a-load-of-crap" board?

I think the only things that are actually reviewed are the boards, and that is just because everyone takes a personal offense to people trying to advertise their message boards here, and reviewing mildly is the only way they feel they have chided the person.

What is your opinion of the severity of reviews in the critique board? Do i have suitable reason for my claims? Why?

[Admin]

a lot of people I've seen giving critique are those who are newer to designing, so they don't have a wide grasp on what's good or not. And those that do have a grasp on that who are posting are just giving constructive criticism. at least from what I saw last time I was in there.

[ishmael]

What is the point of having a critique board if no one gets critiqued? I would normally say a moderater should be watching over that, but seeing as how Amanda hasn't posted since January 13th, 2009, I guess that's out of the question. \

What if there was a board in which members had their own design thread, in which they just posted (bumping) their thread to the top when they made a new creation, and just edited there post with new designs.

There'd be no flood of threads, and it'd still be a great way for members to showcase their artwork.

[gray929]

Whenever I give critiques, no matter how bad it is, I always tell the person that they did a nice job on their sig or "overall, it is excellent work" stuff like that. I never understood why people say "this sig is not good at all". what is that going to teach them? all it is going to do is hurt the designers confidence. I rather lie to the designer than hurt the confidence, straight up. The worst comment I will leave is "this is not the best piece I've seen of yours" or "I know you can do better than this".

And as Kay said, the majority of posts are people trying to give constructive criticism to the best of their design knowledge.

[Admin]

I know that Amanda hasn't been around.

As for the threads; the only reason I would say no to that is because then if there's only one thread per person, and we only have say two people posting in there for a while, it makes the board look dead. As for actual critiquing, Amanda usually does do it. I'm only assuming something with her internet, or her daughter has come up and that's what has kept her from getting online.

I'll talk with Gray and Sak today and see what they think.

[ishmael]

I think people are so afraid of hurting one anothers feelings to such an extent, that we create a false universe in which the designer lives, thinking that their status quo designs are the best they could possibly make, so they keep making the same stuff, not improving.

No, on the contrary, you should tell designers although their stuff is good, it isn't good enough, and point out flaws. If the designer has thick skin (like all artists should have) and they are able to take criticism, they will take the suggestions into consideration, and apply that to next pieces of artwork.

Whenever I read there, the comments don't help the artist expand his/her skills or knowledge.

Example

ssdesigns.proboards17.com/index.cgi?board=show&action=display&thread=55760

Retched - "It looks great! I'm really liking what you've done. "

No offense to him, but just an example. This is the equivalent of a spam post. You don't even have to look at the picture to say that. That isn't criticsm, that doesn't help the artist grow, that blows sunshine up his ass until the artist is in a nirvana-like state and won't come back down.

I see more and more of it, and when I look at it, this isn't criticism, this is bullshit.

---

Edit:

Not necessarily Kay. The board wouldn't be dead just because the post count isn't incessantly rising. You'd have the artists creating new artwork and updating their profile weekly. That isn't being dead. You'd still have people come in and look at the new creations that SSD's designers put out, and comment. Activity isn't solely based on post count, not in my opinion atleast.

I do see your point however.

About Amanda, i came here later than when she was appointed moderator, so I know nothing about her, but I can assume that you didn't appoint her moderator if she isn't active in the critique board. I meant no offense.

[Admin]

okay, I completely lol'd at your post. Firstly, calm down a little. It's just a board. Secondly, I can see your point. But that's where I go back to saying that to those people, they obviously liked it. Trust me, I've been around here long enough to know that if someone doesn't like any of your designs, they will tell you. I admit, Retched's comment was just absolutely pointless, then again he was just expressing how much he liked it. Who are we to tell him he can't express his opinion?

[gray929]

It's just a critique board. You are thinking too hard about it.

People are free to post whatever they want, however I would agree with you that sometimes people post comments which don't really help the designer such as the example you posted. We allow people to post comments such as that as long as they elaborate more than Retched did and explain why they liked it in a few sentences.

You have to remember that a lot of the people who come to SSD are new to designing so you can't expect much for them. Say someone just wrote a script for a chatroom and asked you to give it a detail critique on it. What would you say?

"No, on the contrary, you should tell designers although their stuff is good, it isn't good enough, and point out flaws. If the designer has thick skin (like all artists should have) and they are able to take criticism, they will take the suggestions into consideration, and apply that to next pieces of artwork."

Thats usually what I do and what most people who have experience in design do when critiquing. . .

[ishmael]

Lol, i took a depressent, i'm feeling better. It just seems to me that the critique board is just a "free post" board for members, as if that is all they care about. I've been reading back, I have found a thread yet where people weren't inflating the artist's ego with songs of praise.

And we aren't talking about suppressing his/her opinion, we are asking them to articulate it.

And it isn't just me, Kay, you said yourself in the critique board rules that:

"4. If you comment you must provide some sensible reasoning for it. "It sucks" will not be tolerated, your post will be deleted without warning. Persistent offenders will be dealt with by staff. A minimum of 3 lines is recommended. Try to include what you liked, what you didn't like, and how they could improve on it."

You said that to stop flaming. You did not restrict it to negative posts however, the same rule applies to those people spamming posts like Retched. The rule is implied to stop flaming, but its written to adhere to all posts.

I'm not asking people to restrict their opinions to negativity, I'm asking them to critique, which is what the board tells them to do.

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If we want people to post whatever they want, make a showcase board for artists to post artwork for others to praise. If we have a critique board, lets use it.

[gray929]

ishmael, bro, you are missing the point. People are allowed to post comments in the critique board that are 100% positive and inflate the artists ego as long as they explain why they liked it in a few sentences at the minimum. Why shouldn't they be able to give credit where credit is due? It's their opinion, not yours. You may think a piece sucks, and I may think it should get a DD on dA.

We can't control what people post, but we will try to moderate the comments there as best we can so its most beneficial to the artists. Now, we haven't been keeping a close eye in their as of late, but I will start checking in there more often from now on.

[ishmael]

I got the point, don't worry. I realize a debate between 3 people will not change the mindset of the reviewers in the 'critique' board. that is why I initially put this post in the "Graphic Talk" board, not the Suggestion Board.

suggestion board is for members who want the admins to change something.

I wanted it in the graphic discussion board so that the regulars to the critique board might read it, and so I may try to influence their mindset, to get them to post more intelligent posts, and possibly learn a bit more about the art of graphic design, and possibly about themselves as a person.

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but i do thank your decision to helping moderate the board in amanda's absense.

[gray929]

Feb 8, 2009 20:33:04 GMT ishmael said:

I got the point, don't worry. I realize a debate between 3 people will not change the mindset of the reviewers in the 'critique' board. that is why I initially put this post in the "Graphic Talk" board, not the Suggestion Board.

suggestion board is for members who want the admins to change something.

I wanted it in the graphic discussion board so that the regulars to the critique board might read it, and so I may try to influence their mindset, to get them to post more intelligent posts, and possibly learn a bit more about the art of graphic design, and possibly about themselves as a person.

---

but i do thank your decision to helping moderate the board in amanda's absense.

I moved it because the thread was more concerned with the forum than with visual arts. Something like "Proper ways to critique art" would be more appropriate for the VA board.

I get what you are saying. We will try to moderate the comments in there more closely so artists can start getting legitimate advice on their work.

[ishmael]

Thank you. Hopefully I can help as well by setting good examples so that others may follow.

[danielazarc]

Feb 8, 2009 19:56:53 GMT ishmael said:

I need some help understanding.

I was looking at tags and designs in the critique board, and I was reading the comments.

All replies I read are basically just people blowing sunshine up other peoples asses.

Is it just me, or is everything posted on this forum the next best graphic design that they have ever seen.

Is it a critique board, or a "fill-the-designer-with-a-load-of-crap" board?

I think the only things that are actually reviewed are the boards, and that is just because everyone takes a personal offense to people trying to advertise their message boards here, and reviewing mildly is the only way they feel they have chided the person.

What is your opinion of the severity of reviews in the critique board? Do i have suitable reason for my claims? Why?

Sometimes people are telling the truth. At times there is little more to say than an expression of positive feeling towards the piece in question. Granted it's not very helpful, but sometimes that's all there is to say. It would help if people said why they liked it, but we can't always have perfection, can we?

Mostly what I attempt to give out is constructive criticism, and if I don't see anything wrong, then I'll reply anyway but often times tell people what I like about it. Sometimes I, heaven forbid, make a mistake and forget to elaborate, but that's just the way it is. I don't usually worry about offending people, since if they didn't want critique they wouldn't have posted, but I'm in no way derogatory. From the sound of your post it seems like if it's not negative in some way then it's not appropriate, ironically enough.

That's my opinion on the whole thing though. I feel that it's working out fine for the most part, and as I frequent there sometimes I see a lot of people giving helpful responses. I'd ask for more moderation if I saw any issues, but I haven't yet seen any reason to worry. Your concern is appropriate but not to the degree with which your first post was stated, also my opinion. Good luck to ye.

[ishmael]

It isn't a matter of positivity or negativity in posts, its a matter of critique. Most people take critique at face value, at which that critique makes them feel that they have more to learn, therefore negative.

But I am not saying that all people should have to dislike a piece in order to critique it, they could say what worked for that style of design, and what should be repeated in future designs.

What I am saying however is that people who go into a graphic design critique board should be in the mindset of spending more than 15 seconds typing out a reply. They look in that forum to see good artwork, and to give their insight as to how the artist would improve that piece. They shouldn't hopefully go into that forum thinking, "I'm going to let my mind draw a blank, and I'm going to stare blankly at a collage of colors, while the drool drips out of the corner of my mouth as I sing sweet praise to this person."

I know this problem is minute, but that is why I left this initially for debate in the graphic board rather than in here. Also, if a person wants to change something, they have to inflate it a bit, so as to get closer to what they wanted in compromise, which is why I exaggerated the problem a bit.

But this lack of criticism may be the reason the graphic board is in a state of epic failure right now, in that it doesn't get any new posts in a 3-4 day period. You could argue that it is because of the lack of activity overall in the message board, or as I think of it, people might outsource their critiques to a different message board, because they are getting more intelligent and quick responces.

Now, this isn't supposed to be an end-all solution to everything, it is just my take on it, and I respect your opinion artemis, even though I may disagree.

[Joe C]

Feb 8, 2009 20:07:09 GMT @gray929 said:

Whenever I give critiques, no matter how bad it is, I always tell the person that they did a nice job on their sig or "overall, it is excellent work" stuff like that. I never understood why people say "this sig is not good at all". what is that going to teach them? all it is going to do is hurt the designers confidence. I rather lie to the designer than hurt the confidence, straight up. The worst comment I will leave is "this is not the best piece I've seen of yours" or "I know you can do better than this".

And as Kay said, the majority of posts are people trying to give constructive criticism to the best of their design knowledge.

I see no point in lying.
If constructive criticism hurts an artists "confidence" then they shouldn't get it critiqued anyway because they are taking it the wrong way.
It is called CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, meaning the point is too improve, and an artist won't improve if you tell them their shittiest work still looks good.

There's always room for improvement.

No one is perfect and the last man that was died on a cross!

[gray929]

Feb 12, 2009 14:39:06 GMT Joe C said:

Feb 8, 2009 20:07:09 GMT @gray929 said:

Whenever I give critiques, no matter how bad it is, I always tell the person that they did a nice job on their sig or "overall, it is excellent work" stuff like that. I never understood why people say "this sig is not good at all". what is that going to teach them? all it is going to do is hurt the designers confidence. I rather lie to the designer than hurt the confidence, straight up. The worst comment I will leave is "this is not the best piece I've seen of yours" or "I know you can do better than this".

And as Kay said, the majority of posts are people trying to give constructive criticism to the best of their design knowledge.

I see no point in lying.
If constructive criticism hurts an artists "confidence" then they shouldn't get it critiqued anyway because they are taking it the wrong way.
It is called CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, meaning the point is too improve, and an artist won't improve if you tell them their shittiest work still looks good.

There's always room for improvement.

No one is perfect and the last man that was died on a cross!

I have been looking at art for a while now and usually I always know if someone's work is "their shittiest" or if it's high quality. Either way, I will still make a small comment telling then the piece is "good", "good job" or "keep up the good work". It's not like I say "Oh my God, you are so good at designing, best piece I've ever seen". You are making this seem like a much bigger deal than it actually is. I think you are confused though. Saying someones work is good is not my critique. lol, rather saying someone's work is good is just a supplement to my critique. I offer my constructive criticism first then the "praise". It kills two birds with one stone. It improves their work along with building confidence. I don't think there is such as thing as terrible art as it can always be improved on as you said which is one reason why I never say "btw, you suck designing".

You are making it seem like I think everyone's work is perfect. I don't. . . I understand no one is perfect. Doesn't mean i can't say 'good job'. O well. =/