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Post by Assassinator/Young Everest on May 11, 2007 21:45:59 GMT
Now the notion of a mod spot up for grabs is in place for the critique board, the place is in a mess.
It isn't a rating board and someone needs to sort it out. It used to be full of well thought out critique, and now we have short messages with 9/10 stuck on the end to justify it. The occasional long critique is thrown in and still we see a rating. How can you rate an art piece? To me it says nothing, you can't gauge something on one single number.
I hate to sound like I'm forcing actions and things on everything but I can see this place going to the pits. The board(s) needs sorting.
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Post by xavier on May 11, 2007 22:20:43 GMT
Unless you are going to forward some good ideas you should stop moaning, your not actually helping the situation.
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Post by pandora on May 11, 2007 23:28:01 GMT
Matt- I don't remember you being this bitter before. You are starting to remind me of Awesome Andrew before he completely disappeared. (though I HAVE seen him post lately).
I don't think it is really a mess, as you say. And if people want to include a rating in their critique, don't let it bother you, it's just a way to scale the overall feel of the piece to that particular individual.
Negative thread starting just puts everyone on edge.
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Post by Luke on May 11, 2007 23:53:30 GMT
I agree with the Jon and Pandora. Creating negatave threads without even a sentence belonging to some form of a suggestion isn't helping one bit. You act as if all this horribly unaccepted number rating has just appeared out of no where. People have been doing so ever since SSD opened. I don't think you've done anything but shove a couple negative threads down our throats. How about we see more of you actually helping us iron this problem out, and less of you moaning and complaning about it. Thanks.
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Post by Kay on May 12, 2007 0:02:22 GMT
It's really a shame to see you like this.
But I do have to point out that you basically said to hell with SSD, that you didn't care, it was a waste of time, and on and on and on.
So what's it to you? I'm just a bit frustrated with you as of lately. And like the others said, instead of just moaning and complaining, how about pitching out some ideas? You know that without ideas, there's no chance of your thread really even being taken into consideration. You know how it works.
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Post by Me on May 12, 2007 0:14:00 GMT
I'm sorry, but this thread was needed.
The point of this board is to point out some of the negatives in SSD. It certainly helps, and Matt shouldn't be attacked for pointing out the truth.
Art should not be rated. It should be given a constructive critique. That is why the board name was switched to Critique. There should be a rule about rating someone's work, unless they specifically ask for it. Otherwise, you would be out of line to do so.
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Post by pandora on May 12, 2007 0:33:29 GMT
Well, Chantry, you are right about this being the right place for this thread, but he states that this place is going to the pits, and I disagree. This place thrives on new blood. Transition periods occur. If Ollie and Car don't think anyone has potential to fill the role, then they have to wait until a potential mod steps forward, e.g. Mukei. Regular members shouldn't be told not to put a number on their critique as long as they support it with reasons.
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Post by Kay on May 12, 2007 0:46:25 GMT
Well, Chantry, you are right about this being the right place for this thread, but he states that this place is going to the pits, and I disagree. This place thrives on new blood. Transition periods occur. If Ollie and Car don't think anyone has potential to fill the role, then they have to wait until a potential mod steps forward, e.g. Mukei. Regular members shouldn't be told not to put a number on their critique as long as they support it with reasons. *nods* Exactly. And I wasn't "attacking" him. It's just that pointing it out in words like that is absolutely unnecessary. He could've thrown out ideas, or something. But he didn't. He just stated it. Why state something that not only is clear to us, but that has been pointed out before?
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Post by Me on May 12, 2007 1:18:23 GMT
The pits comment definitely wasn't needed.
He did offer some feedback. He states that people are simply rating images, and not giving decent critiques. I'm not sure anyone did notice this. If they did, they were certainly being quiet about it.
Design boards all across proboards are not as active as they used to be, and that particular board is suffering because of it. However, the quality of the posts should not be reduced because of that.
As for the rates thing. I am obviously completely against it, but I guess it isn't up to me to say what is wrong or right.
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Post by gray929 on May 12, 2007 1:23:32 GMT
Sometime short rates can be good. Like this one by Luke is perfectly acceptable.
It provides useful advice for the artist even though it appears short. short. But, the people who just say "6/10 not the best sig" they are the ones I have a problem with. When I rate, I try and write more than a few sentences so the artist know's I actually look'd at their sig and becuase of that can assume I am offering valid advice. But, you don't want to reiterate stuff you already said just to make your rate to long. Rating isn't rocket science. I think there are a few good raters in the rate board then the few who offer horrible advice. Overall though, the board isn't dieing to much. Once they get a mod in there thing should be back to normal.
I'd suggest you get that code so when ever a person presses reply it takes them to a page that doesn't let you pass it until 10 seconds pass and it tells you the rules of the board.
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Post by Oracle on May 12, 2007 1:30:39 GMT
Sometime short rates can be good. Like this one by Luke is perfectly acceptable. It provides useful advice for the artist even though it appears short. short. But, the people who just say "6/10 not the best sig" they are the ones I have a problem with. When I rate, I try and write more than a few sentences so the artist know's I actually look'd at their sig and becuase of that can assume I am offering valid advice. But, you don't want to reiterate stuff you already said just to make your rate to long. Rating isn't rocket science. I think there are a few good raters in the rate board then the few who offer horrible advice. Overall though, the board isn't dieing to much. Once they get a mod in there thing should be back to normal. I'd suggest you get that code so when ever a person presses reply it takes them to a page that doesn't let you pass it until 10 seconds pass and it tells you the rules of the board. Might be annoying for members that already read the rules. Maybe make it occur only once for every member? Make a "Critiquer of the month" for the person that gives the best critique? Or just reward them in some way. Everyone loves rewards.
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Post by Me on May 12, 2007 1:38:12 GMT
Short and simple is fine, as long as it has decent feedback.
I just want to throw this out there, because I haven't really explained it fully.
" The reason I don't like ratings, is some people consider their work art. Many artists would be disgusted with you if you put a grade on their work. Art is about showing meaning, and letting something out. Sometimes artists leave a part of themselves on a piece. Would you want someone to say, 'not bad, 7/10.' if that were the case?
That is why I am not fond of rates. I guess anyone who doesn't want one can just say so in their post though. "
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Post by Carson! on May 12, 2007 1:47:01 GMT
In defense of us poor critics...the majority of people are fools. Thats the market you are pandering too; some folk can only tell you its good or bad, or that they don't like it for some reason they can't convey. Thats how the world works.
Not to say that quality critique isn't a great thing to get, and that we shouldn't aim to be better - just that most demographics know what they like but don't know why they like it.
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Post by gray929 on May 12, 2007 1:55:30 GMT
Chantry, I am a mod/rater at Free to Advertise and the first thing they told me was not to put a score x/10. I agree that people should lean more towards advice opposed to just giving a number with no legitament backup. I hate to be negative but this board needs to crackdown on poor rates. SSD is a fantabulous forum. They deserve better.
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Post by pandora on May 12, 2007 7:56:07 GMT
In defense of us poor critics...the majority of people are fools. Thats the market you are pandering too; some folk can only tell you its good or bad, or that they don't like it for some reason they can't convey. Thats how the world works. Not to say that quality critique isn't a great thing to get, and that we shouldn't aim to be better - just that most demographics know what they like but don't know why they like it. To loosely quote "Gone in 60 Seconds" (because I'm too lazy at the moment to find the exact phrasing) "I know I can't swim, so I stay my black ass out the pool!" -Chi McBride I generally don't know what went into a graphic piece, so I avoid critiquing at all. Sometimes, as Bryanic said, I like something, but I'm not sure why, since I'm woefully inexperienced. I'll comment occasionally if I'm unusually impressed, or particularly bored. I know I'm not the best critter on that board, but I'll put my two cents in. I don't think n00bs should feel uncomfortable putting their own two cents in as well. I remember Michael doing a great job there, and he should feel great about how missed he is.
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Post by Assassinator/Young Everest on May 12, 2007 11:52:06 GMT
*sigh* Well I'm sorry guys. But I've seen this place in a better state.
The people here are wonderful. It's a great community. It's why I can't leave. But it really is losing it's spirit. It's liveliness It's activity. It's interest.
I would like to give thanks to chantry for standing against the crowd.
people haven't being doing it since the beginning of SSD. That's when it started. But it stopped. Because it lead to shitty posts where people just say: 'Yeah, that's a good piece
(As if I'm God about these things) I'll give it a 9/10'
What does that mean to a designer? Nothing. If I get rates like that it actually offends me. I've put all this effort and thought into a piece, and bam. There's a number shoved on it. That's disgusting. I could pour my life on a canvas and someone could say 'hmm, that's interesting, I'll give you a 5/10 because I know best'
I'm sorry for being a cynic, but I just want the best for SSD.
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Post by pandora on May 12, 2007 13:06:23 GMT
I didn't realize how offensive rating was to you. I think I see your point better now.
I still think this is just a transition period, and it will regain steam with a worthy moderator in control of the board.
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Post by Admin on May 12, 2007 13:49:04 GMT
I somewhat agree, it's not quite as bad as you make it sound in my eyes anyway. At the moment it doesn't have a full time moderator like it used to, so things are a little difficult. As with before, I've had difficulty in getting time to work with it.
I'm going to have a look through now, and check everything is in order.
My apologies.
Thanks to those who have been helping out in there though.
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Post by urbancinderella on May 13, 2007 6:20:00 GMT
Not to speak over Oliver or anything, but one last thing to add to you, Matt... that I hope the general public will see.
I stated point-blank that someone interested in the modship should work in there. So yes, there has been more activity as people attempt to prove themselves.
But do not think that Oliver and I haven't done this before. We're not going to choose someone in a few days of rating because even someone with the attention span of a goldfish (ie me) can maintain rating that board for a few days. It's someone who is consistently good that will get the position, so this short term activity boost is exactly as its name implies: short term.
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